I'm SO impressed... not

[ximeria]

I swung by the AG list tonight
::winces::
Question -- why can you post positive fb, read: squeeing fangirlish rubbish, but you can't post crit on the list? I've never seen a worse case of brown nosing in fandom before (maybe I'm just innocent and haven't seen all the bad stuff...) I have to admit I haven't read the fic in question, just like I haven't read the last god knows how many that Biblio's posted. I just don't care that much for her writings anymore -- might be because she's stuck with seasons 1-3 and as much as those seasons had some damned good eps that spawned fic-bunnies near and far, that's it. At some point you have to move on. I think that's why I stopped reading her stuff

Still, I'm surprised that you can't post your opinion, be it good or bad. Sure, maybe the girl in question should have elaborated a little more on what she meant, but to me it was clear as day, it might not have been 115% constructive, but if I'd gotten fb like that I'd have sat down and thought long and hard about it and maybe try to see if the girl didn't have a point.

What I really didn't like, was the number of people 'beating' her down. Jeez people, get a bloody life -- there's more to life than fandom. Take fb as it comes, good as bad -- analyse it, see if they're right and then MAYBE it's time you get your head out of your *** and develop your writing before it goes stale. I know I listen to good as well as bad fb (unless it's that time of the month, in which case I'm excused ^_~)

Comments

[gwentastic.livejournal.com]

Where have all the other good fic writers gone? Did they run off?

For some people fandom IS their life. Which really is sad. How can you write well if you never go outside your house?

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It's one reason why I've stepped to the periphery of the SG fandom. I'll still write, but I'm holding back because the fandom itself is making me gag. Most of my online friends are okay, but everytime i'm stupid enough to visit lists like AG, I'm reminded why I pulled back.

::sighs::

[gwentastic.livejournal.com]

I for one do miss your stargate fics. (Loving the Ben/RayK. I've always loved those two together.) But understand pulling back. I've left all of those lists. Those Pete haters out there scare the crap out of me. People are very strange when it comes to their OTPs.

Personally I think if you have the balls to put your fic out there for the masses you should have the balls to realize people may not like it and they may be REALLY mean to you because of it.

[orange852.livejournal.com]

It seems that the critic was beat down by everyone except...the target of criticism. Biblio posted a couple of responses that did not appear to me to be critical of the critic or her criticism, an which (it is to be hoped) taught some list members about leaping to the defense of someone who doesn't necessarily need it.

"Pearls" is set around a couple of Season Five episodes, is darker than your average Biblio fic and features the most team dynamic of any first time story I've ever read. I think she's starting to move on a bit from the post-Meridian slump.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

well that at least is something, though as much as she did step in and say that the girl was allowed her opinion, I object to her lines about wanting 'negative' fb offlist -- that's just pure bull. You take the good with the bad when you write. No use going: I only want the good stuff for sharing, the bad I want offlist. see THAT was the part that annoyed me.

[destina.livejournal.com]

Whoops, let's try that again.

I object to her lines about wanting 'negative' fb offlist -- that's just pure bull.

Oh, abolutely -- it's total bull. She doesn't want constructive crit of any sort. I have a very clear email from her that says so. *g*

[gateruner.livejournal.com]

I was so glad to read your post Xim. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt this way. It's been that way for a while now on that list and it gets old to me.

After having my own brush with fb, both neg and good, and more neg, I had to do some soul searching about it and realized a lot of what you said as the truth.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

I've had 'bad' fb too. If it's constructive I try to learn from it, if it isn't, I just get a good laugh and delete the email. It's really a matter of weighing what you can get from the fb. Writing is learning and you learn for as long as you write. The time comes where you're no longer learning? It's time to pack the muses away. It may be hard to put it that way, but even I have had periods where I've felt drained and hated every word I put on paper. If you push the writing, it'll suck, I can guarantee that. If you let it come to you it'll work a lot better. And then, if you're blessed with a beta reader who won't be afraid to speak up, you'll be allowed to adjust the story, tweak it to a much better piece. I take 'bad' fb like I take critical betaing. I weigh it against my personality, my style and the story itself. And then I use what I can and discard the rest. It's the only way to really get through it.

[swtalmnd]

the one thing about on-list (and lj) crit is that it's a bit like public humiliation -- why couldn't the criticiser just have done so in private? was there a reason it needed to be aired in front of hundreds of people? i don't think there's any problem with giving someone constructive fb, but it's a bit thoughtless to do it on-list instead of off, when offlist is as easy as changing the "reply to" email.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Now see, that's where I get stubborn because I'm tired of always seeing the fangirlish reactions on list. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen (yes, I'm NEARING that time of the month, it always makes me this agressive LOL). But seriously, to me that is hipocritical. Maybe it's just because that thanks to you being one of my early betas, I have a thick skin and really couldn't care less what others think *eg* -- and thanks to um... well, you know the circumstances, I don't care much what real life people say either. I'm me, take it or leave it.
::hugs::
PS. Biblio ASKED for fb. Whined about it being a zine story she'd never gotten any fb for. I think that's what raised my hackles. If you ask for it, take what comes your way.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

That was my thought on it. I think it's just the polite way of doing things. There was no need for the crit to be done on-list. Critisicm is a wonderful thing, but generally It's meant for the author, and the author alone. A very negative crit posted on-line is pretty thoughtless, I agree.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

I guess this is a case of Be Careful For Wwhat You Wish For. If you ask why you never got any feedback for a fic, someone might actually decide to take you on your offer. And this person might even have felt tired with the whole 'I'm asking why no one ever sent me fb over this story so you tell me that my story rocks and how it was so unfair' line, actually. Cause when you do receive a reply --as blunt as it was-- and don't like it? Might mean that you were never asking for real fb to start with.

Sure, the girl's feedback was blunt and maybe she could have decided to send the LOC off-list like some people would have, but her fb wasn't a flame, nor was it aggressive or anything, she just gave Biblio's the answer she's asked for. She certainly can't be accused of beling hypocritical, she was just being honest - and she even admitted to usually being a fan of Biblio's work, so it's apparently not even as if the reader was a member of the rabid-anti-Biblio gang we hear so much about. Who annoy me as well, but that's another story lol And I'm not even one of her fans, so I can't be accused of being biased here *g*

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

I'm not anti Biblio either, she just pushes all my wrong buttons *grins*
I think this is just one thing in a long line that annoys me about the fandom. Maybe it's just too big for me. I'm feeling good at the moment with Sentinel and Due South, both not as active fandoms as SG.

[nicci-mac.livejournal.com]

I used to read everything that was posted, fic, rant, discussion, feedback. I liked to feel that much a part of the fandom. They things got nasty and I pulled back. Like you, I've been hovering on the edge. I dont want to let it go completely as there are still a numbner of people on the lists that I like to chat with, but in all honestly, I have too many RL issues to get into the wank that is AG.

I found slash through Biblios early fic. I will always love those beautiful, romantic, well crafted fic. I will still read them, and probably get round to reading any of her other fics too. Becuase despite that fact that I dont really like her that much as an individual, I still think she is a great writer.

But I cant be bothered with all the wank, brown-nosing and whining that goes on. I say fuck it - lets just lock outselves in a big room with Jack, Daniel, Blair, Jim, Ray, and Benton, a family pack of condoms and a giant tube of astroglide. oh yeah -- works for me!

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Dear GOD woman, label your comments with warnings, will ya!
LOL
I nearly blew a gasket.
::picks herself off the floor::
Yeah, I used to love reading Biblio's stories, but now that I've read so much other stuff, I never re-read fic because in 80% of them, I'll be disappointed because they're not as good as i recall them.

[ev-vy.livejournal.com]

*snerk* That's the very reason why I still am on the AG list. I sit back, drink my coffee and roast marshmallows. I love those moments when the list ceases to be one big happy family and various little critters raise their ugly heads. *g*

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

::laughs::
That's one reason for staying. Won't ever get cold with all the flames LOL

[skater-g8r.livejournal.com]

theres wank?? oh! ::looks surprised::

I hear no! see no wank! I put my lists on 'no mail' before xmas, and just never bothered chnging it back!

life is sooo much sweeter *-))


::loves LJ:: <3

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah -- it was a train wreck LOL -- I'm not much on the list anyway and I never post fic there anymore anyway.

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

Ahhh...thanks. I never rejoined the list when I had to get a new Yahoo login awhile back. I was starting to wonder if I should rejoin. Apparently I made the right decision.

::Hugs LJ and flist!::

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

::hugs back::
That is true -- I'm only sticking around because... um... okay, you got me there, I don't know why LOL

[jennixen.livejournal.com]

"Take fb as it comes, good as bad -- analyse it, see if they're right and then MAYBE it's time you get your head out of your *** and develop your writing before it goes stale"

Exactly!! *huggles*
IMHO a write should be able to read FB and ignore it if they want to. ;))

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

All it takes is backbone and the fact that you write for your own pleasure and not that of others

[sazandra.livejournal.com]

Can't remember the last time I gave feedback on a group. If somebody gives an email address I reply to them direct, way more personal than sending to a group there all and sundry can read your comments.

I also hate reading other people's feedback on other people's fic so anything with the FB in the subject line goes straight in the trash - sometimes there aren't many emails to skim through after the quite satisfying delete button.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

::nods::
I just think I'd hoped people were too old to behave the way they did, but alas, I have too much faith in mankind ^_~
(guess that means we may as well turn over world domination to the cats)