ximeria | Why Torchwood?

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Why Torchwood?

This started as a comment to

pattrose question as to why we watch Torchwood. I realized that I ranted a lot and decided to do it in my own LJ instead of hers XD

Right, hmmm.

Let's start with Dr Who. Because it's hard to follow TW if you don't know the whoverse. What I like about Dr Who. Well, there's the nostalgia thing -- which is what I know a lot of Brits lean on as well. I used to watch DW back when I was around 10 or so. I thought it was the weirdest thing, mostly I think, because of the language barrier -- I had barely started learning English at that point and it was on a channel that didn't have sub-titles -- so color me pretty lost.

I didn't want to start watching DW, but someone *coughsNiccicoughs* shared some youtube stuff from TW and another friend said I wasn't allowed to watch TW without having watched DW - the new series from 2005 and up. So I did that and to my surprise, I liked it, a lot. It's the humour in it, it's the intelligent writing and the insanity. I'm sorry, but most American sci-fi bores the hell out of me and I think I got into DW at the right time. I'd grown tired of SG1, I'd never seen the lure of SGA, Battlestar Galactica... well, even the lure of Callum Keith Rennie couldn't get me to watch that.

Now, Dr who has some good and some weaker storylines, but overall, they caught me a lot faster than any other show I've ever come across - and the humour is a lot closer to my own, me being a Dane and being used to reading Brit authors. Normally the only show that pinged on my humourmeter that way was Due South, and that was Canadian, so again, closer to the Brit brand of humour.

I watched Dr Who and loved the stories, loved the heartaches. Eventhough it's a show aimed at the whole family, kids included, people die, sometimes you don't come out of a situation without a lot of loss, emotional or physical or with DW, often both. So it's a show that's had me in stitches as well as made me howl my eyes out. Apart from that, the lure of time travel -- how much can you interfere and how much should you?

Having watched series 3 of DW -- the tenth Doctor and the last series to air so far... the end of that series blew me away. A three parter based on time paradoxes, on pain and torture and hope -- I have to admit, I have yet to see writing that good on an American sci-fi show. Topped with that, John Simm who played the baddie, scared the shit out of me while being just about the sexiest bad guy to ever set foot on earth *g*

Enter Torchwood -- so why? It's got a ton of plot holes especially in Series 1. There've been plot holes in Series 2 already. So why on earth get hooked?

I got hooked on the humour, the fucked up characters and all the pretty XD -- so colour me shallow if you must *g*

Jack wasn't quite so carefree this time around. He was darker and more lost than he was in Doctor Who, but it makes sense when you know what he's been through. It even goes a long way in explaining his bastard behaviour toward other people, including his team at times. In series 1 that kept the team divided, while his disappearance obviously changed the dynamics of the team. For the better.

Ianto didn't catch my eye from the beginning, but I should have known. It's always the quiet ones XD -- I mean, I could see the reasons why Jack would be attracted to him -- I expected I'd only go for this pairing in the way I go for Sentinel's Jim and Blair -- see, I don't like Blair, I don't find him attactive in any way at all. But I can see why Jim likes him and would be attracted to him. What changed my view of Ianto was partly the cyberwoman episode, but also a few of the other episodes. I loved his voice from day one. I liked the formality of the character, obviously covering for a dry witted sense of humour. And the poor boy is flawed, as much as any of the others. He's loved, he's lost, and he's got an iron control of himself. We've only seen him break down three times -- once was the cyberwoman incident, where he'd just lost Lisa, the other time was Countrycide with the cannibals, and I can't blame him for that. The last time was a quiet breakdown on his own in Jack's office, thinking Jack was dead. That said, I think the writer on episode 2 in the new series went a little overboard with Ianto's humour -- Gareth did the best he could with the scenes, but they WERE badly written -- Ianto does subtle humour better.

Tosh is getting more interesting story lines and I like that -- in the beginning she was a bit in the background along with Ianto, but they're definitely making up for that in the new series. She gets to shine as the competent geek she is, but we also see her as the woman she is -- she makes choices based on her heart, even if she knows she'll end up being hurt in the end.

Gwen. Well, I didn't like her much in the first series. The 'care and empathy' spiel annoyed the crap out of me. It doesn't come across as caring to me, it comes across condensendingly and it annoyed the crap out of me. Also, she has Rhys, she cheats on him, she gives him ret-con. She sleeps with Owen, and she occasionally seems to want Jack as well. Well, tough luck lady, the Welsh Teaboy got there first XD -- and we don't even have to fix that in fanfic. I'm that shallow. But seriously, this time around, it seems more team focused than Gwen-centric, so I'm enjoying the second series a lot more.

Owen seems to have grown up, he did stuff in the first series that really turned a lot of the fandom against him -- I didnt' like him all that much either. This time around? He's had to use his brain and his skills as a doctor, which had made me warm to him a lot more -- and so far, I'm actually liking him a lot.

So, yeah. there you go -- TW might be flawed when it comes to plot, but it more than makes up for it with interesting characters and if they continue to focus on the character driven stories for the second series, then I for one will stick around.

What about you guys? Why are you watching it?

And this time we're putting the image at the bottom, because for fuck's sake people, I expect you to read the entry before you drool in the keyboard!

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Sorry - I was totally with you until half way down the page, and then I noticed the giff and my eye kept wandering. If you want people to actually READ what you write, stop putting distracting boy kissage ANYwhere on the page. Bwahahaha

Why do you THINK I use that imaage? *laughs*

But I LIKE boy kissage! It's hot... *drools*

Every single thing you said. That's why I watch it.

Also, because I am OVERJOYED not to have to "fix" anything between Ianto and Jack in fanfic (reading or writing). That the boy!love is RIGHT THERE, for all and sundry to see, and if they don't like...tough. It's canon.

Imagine that: me, a canon-wh0re. Never woulda thunk it, not with my regular OTPs.

Heh, yes, you're right. We don't have to fix stuff or twist it to get them together -- we can focus on other stuff like the smut, the fun, the smut, the... eh... heh

I agree with a lot of your points, including the ones about American SciFi television, unfortunately. It feels to me that the producers just don't 'get it'. They think that scifi should be the same over-emoting, easy choice, bland pablum produced for general audiences, just in outer space or with magic or ... well, whatever. Granted, when they do produce something edgy, it makes them so uneasy, they cancel it pretty quickly. You would have LOVED Special Unit 2 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268094/) and The Chronicle (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242733/).

I'll look into those two, because yeah, they do look interesting -- and yeah, it's sad that American sci-fi lacks the umph -- although I did enjoy Babylon 5 very much.

You've expressed pretty much all my reasons for why I love Torchwood. Despite the plot holes, the writing on season 2 has been stronger than a lot of the writing on season 1, which has just made me love Torchwood even more. In season 1 it was all about the potential for the series and its set-up (and a bit of frustration that the potential was often not realised), now it's all about the series that I have on my screen in front of me.

I love that we have the Jack/Ianto relationship in canon and also that it's not the centre of every episode. We see it, we get to squee but there is still so much that we can fill in and speculate, which keeps it interesting.

I watched Doctor Who from the time that I was a small child and I adored it. For me, there was a lot of trepidation when they announced that they were bringing it back. Could it match the heights of the original? Would they acknowledge the history or start afresh? Would it be treated well or end up a caricature? I've been so happy to find that it's every bit as good as the original, sometimes better, and much more interesting than so much of the stuff coming over from America.

Aside: Damn, that gif is distracting. And mesmerising. Thank you :-)

Heh, you're more than welcome -- Yes, you're absolutely right, the fact that the Jack/Ianto relationship is simply there, as part of the whole thing without trying to call all that much attention to itself... it works so much better, makes it seem so much more part of the story -- I think writers like the ones on SG1 could've learned from this -- anyone writing m/f ship in shows -- I mean, I still have ticks when someone mentions Sam and Jack on SG1 -- because the writers tried to stuff it down our throats -- which was why I didn't like it -- it wasn't because it was m/f but for the way it was done *g*

Dammit! Again I had some interesting thing to say and then... gif. *stares*

Well I know what I'm watching this season for. That's for sure.

No, seriously though. I started watching Who for the first time back in 2005 when my f-list suddenly exploded with "ZOMG Doctor/Rose" and I thought "Doctor? Which doctor? What's his name? What fandom is this?" I was hooked halfway through the first episode. I was head over heels by the time the Empty Child and the Doctor Dances aired. And I was already a dedicated fan of Torchwood when they announced that it was to be Jack's show. The potential for awesome was so overwhelming I knew even if the show sucked the fic would make up the difference.

I started watching Torchwood because of everything I love about Jack, but now I'm watching it because it's silly, funny, genuine, and has an eerie way of reading my mind and delivering me exactly what I want. It's like I'm deliberately being catered to as a slash fan viewing audience and that is a weird new feeling. I really love Ianto and Toshiko as characters. I'm starting to like Gwen more this season. I'm actually considering giving Owen half a chance. The writing has been really strong this season and I desperately hope it keeps up.

it's silly, funny, genuine...

Exactly -- it's all those things -- it's got drama, angst, crack-humour and lovely characters who aren't perfect. That is for me, entertainment -- and I love TW for that *g*

Yes yes yes YES to all of the above.

I don't understand why I need to justify why I watch it. I don't ask people to justify watching SGA. Which I was never able to get into even though I tried more than once.

But you summed up why I watch Torchwood to perfection.

I watch because it entertains me.

heh, see, I don't take this as a time to defend why I watch it -- if you look at it this way, the more I go on about the pretty and use the animated .gif file... the more people on my LJ list might consider watching -- and if I really go into details why I like the show, I might convince a few people to come on board -- according to

audaxfemina I'll eventually win a toaster -- which I told her I shall use for taking over the world ... yes, a very odd conversation XD

Why we watch? The short answer is... why not? Seriously, I hate that "Why do you watch XYZ show, because I do not like/understand it?" stuff. There's more than enough room in the world for us to all like (or not like) different shows, and our likes and dislikes can be based on different reasons too.

I watched the original Doctor Who on PBS (public television in the US) when I was a teen, but I didn't see the entire run. Because PBS is more localized in some programming, in most cases Doctor Who aired late at night and became a cult thing among the more hardcore sci fi fans, never really having a chance to breakthrough to mainstream audiences.

I do like that the new series doesn't require familiarity with the old, but knowing some of the history can add an extra dimension. Being on Sci Fi (and a second run on BBC America) has finally allowed the show to get a wider audience.

Unfortunately, most American sci fi isn't really science fiction. It's not about exploring the "what if" aspects anymore, it's more of an action-adventure show with a thin veneer of science fiction in the form of stereotypical spaceships, rayguns, aliens and girls in tight fitting outfits.

I've always sought out non-American programming, especially for sci fi stuff, and while both DW and TW have their weak moments, overall I have to give even the weak episodes high points for even trying, instead of cranking out the same old stuff every week.

I think some of the major problems for me last year with TW regarded my expectations. I expected a show centered around Jack and his team, and I got one centered around Gwen with Jack and the rest just sort of there for most of the season.

I know now most of the uneveness was due to deadlines for getting the show done, and keeping Jack more in the background and moody was because the "big reveal" was being held back for DW, but it still hurt the first season a lot. But I can see immediate improvements in the second, even with there still being nitpicky plotholes.

I loved Jack from the start; he was the reason I started watching the show, after all. I liked what little we saw of Tosh and Ianto, but we didn't have much to go on. Gwen and Owen I didn't really care for in the first season, but you know what? I don't think you have to like all of the characters.

The second season has already seen a great improvement on the characters, because I can't believe I'm going to say this, but... I don't feel the urge to throttle Owen whenever he's onscreen. We're also seeing them act as a team instead of a group of individuals, which was something sorely lacking. That's a problem the Stargate franchise drifted into, mistaking a "group of individuals" as a team, instead of showing them working as a team.

My only continuing niggle with the franchise is about onscreen ship stuff. Not that I'm completely against it [stares at picture again], but with Doctor Who especially, I think they went too far with Doctor/Rose, to the point of hurting Martha's characterization.

In general, I loved Martha, but it got really old to wait for the scene of the Doctor pining for Rose and/or Martha being jealous of Rose. I wouldn't have minded it being a recurring theme, but every episode (except for Blink, IIRC) was just way too much.

It may be at least partly because I was more familiar with the "old school" Doctor Who, where the Companion was just that, not an overt love interest. I had really hoped we'd get a long-term male companion, to cut down some of the shippy stuff for a while. Not just to give the slashers more fodder *g*, but because I'd like to see more of a "buddy relationship" with the Doctor and Companion.

*nods*
See, i gree with all of that -- and I've prefered the Doctor as a non-sexual being as well, either that, or like you mention, it'd been nice to have a more constant male companion as well -- to balance things out -- they don't really have to do any of it as a romantic love story with the companions -- the Doctor DOES love his companions and leaving them behind does hurt, but it doesn't need all the romance and yearning to make us see that.

Yes, the Doctor loves his companions and vice versa, but I get sort of uncomfortable with all the overt romantic aspects being used to make this point.

It was starting to bug me with Rose, but I could mostly ignore it, but with Martha it just killed me. I love Martha's character, but the pining just annoyed the snot out of me.

I'm hoping she'll turn out sort of like Jack in a way -- once he got his answer, he could move on, so maybe now that she's found her identity away from the Doctor, maybe that will take out the pining aspect, or at least not have to show it in every single episode.

Every single member of the regular cast has been shown in a sexual or romantic situation with members of both sexes. That alone is enough to make me love this show. Bisexuality is normal in Torchwood. Nobody thinks twice about it.

That's only one of the ways in which TW depicts sex in realistic, grown-up ways that just never happen on American TV. We have to watch British and Canadian TV for that.

People on TW have sex for all kinds of reasons-- love, loneliness, desire, fear, need, and sometimes just for fun. That makes me incredibly happy.

As an aside, I liked Owen. He was a total git, but I liked him anyway. I felt for him. When he cried in Jack's arms, that worked for me in scary, scary ways. /g/

Finally, they hire good actors especially for the guest spots. The guy who played Capt. Jack in "Captain Jack Harkness" did a marvelous job. When he takes Jack's hand and leads him onto the dance floor, everything is right there in his face--why he needs to do this and why he's terrified of doing it. It was beautifully acted.

The guest stars in the last two eps have been quite good as well.

There are so many reasons to like TW. /g/

Exactly -- they show love and sex in a way that actually mirrors the real world a lot better -- and I'm with you on Owen -- I like him these days, though it doesn't mean I don't hoot when Ianto or one of the others get one over him -- it's like watching a typical dysfunctional family LOL

Yeah, having just watched episode two last night, I really disliked some of Gareth's lines, mostly because he was actually acting like a spaz. Though, I did see a pretty cute Ianto and Owen interaction piece asking him why the hell he was acting like a brat...

:)

This season, though, I would think Ianto would be fighting the urge to strangle Gwen. She's patronizing and hypocritical and she drives me mad. :) God knows what she's doing to the people around her... Damn, now I'm in the mood for Gwen-bashing fic. *wanders off*

Heh, nah, I can handle Gwen better this time around -- after three eps, she is more in the background which fits me quite fin -- and bashing isn't my style -- I just wish they'd write her as a competent cop again -- it seems TW drains her intelligence.

Well, compared to the people she works with, I'd imagine she feels very much the country cousin. Either they've got degrees and specialties, or they've got years of experience with aliens and alien tech... hard to act anything other than dumb sometimes.

Though the whole 'tell Jack' thing at the end of KKBB? What was that all about.

'k. I'm going to have to comment on the actual entry later. Too busy watching.

Where did that come from??????????

Episode 3 of Series 2 :)

Oooooo....

Agree 100%

*goes back to stare at gif*

*laughs*

Jesus. I think I might explode if I don't get this episode. I really do. Explode and everything. This must be one of the best boy/boy kisses I ever seed. Ever.

And I'm not making any sense but hey. It's Jack and fucking Ianto having one of the tenderest, sexiest most meaningful snogs that ever there was and I don't have to make sense!

Aw, this sucks -- right, are you on AIM or some such thing? I can send it via that if you'd like -- just ping me -- i'm' 'ximeria' on aim, 'ximeria@yahoo.com' on y!

I really think my azureus is fucked up. I'm downloading it again to see if that helps. I've tried about six different downloads without success so far, but I haven't been able to download anything for ages.

I've got yahell messenger if that's any use? I'm wicked38uk on there.

let me know if you can't get it to work -- I tend to use Opera - my browser, so do the torrent download. -- I'm on and can use the yahell server to do the transfer

DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem. Pardon me while I watch. I expect you'll hear the squee in Denmark ;o)

And there it goes...

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And sniff. :o) And a discreet padding of damp eyes. But I'll deny it if I'm asked.

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