I'm gonna go look for a pain killer...

[ximeria]

This is an add-on to the previous post on using methaphors/word plays and such that aren't necessarily of American or Brit origin. <<-- That was the ultra-short version XD

I've put it under cut, it's a little lengthy, I rant and rave, and yeah, please bear with me, I've got a head ache I have no idea where came from.



I had more than a few people commenting on that it was important to not throw the reader by using for example Brit terms in an American set TV show when writing fanfic. Well, yeah. I never said I did that, now did I? Occasionally it will happen, though it'll mostly be the other way, because most of the terms I'm used to using are American. And thank God, I don't write Harry Potter fanfic *sniggers*

Those of you who know me, know that about 98% of my work is humour based, not drama and/or angst. Right? Cool, so to mix things up a little, I occasionally fool around with the language, in the guise of metaphors, similies, idioms, sayings. Whatever you want to call them. What I meant in the previous post was, that sometimes I'll take a DANISH saying and convert it directly into English by merely translating the sentence, instead of looking for an English saying that covers the same.

Examples (English saying first if I can come up with it, then Danish saying directly translated.):

1.
Need is the mother of invention = Need teaches a naked woman to spin (on a spinning wheel, making yarn/thread)
Granted, that I would never put in a fic ROFL

2.
Worry is often the cause of illness (it's the closest I can think of) = Don't paint the Devil on the wall
Don't worry about something until it actually happens. Could be 'we'll cross that bridge when we get there'.
Yeah, that one I've used. For a firefly fic, where the language is already a mish-match of several others.

3.
I've got no English saying for this LOL = You have to listen to a lot before the ears fall off.
I could see more than one of the characters I write make use of this one. Seriously. I'll consider it funny, and everyone else will just wonder if I've got a hole in my bag of marbles. *g*

4.
No English for this one either - yeah, I'm getting lazy = From drunkards and children you'll hear the truth

5.
Once burned, twice shy = Burned child fears fire/is shy of the fire, if you want to dictate the exact translation
Guess that one is easy enough to get.

So yeah, I have fun fooling around with terms. Not just 'sayings' as such. I had fun throwing ideas back and forth with nicci_mac when I was looking for a term for being queer that 1. Ray Kowalski would use 2. that wasn't your standard, run of the mill term. I asked for something that was bent. She supplied me with a willow in a windtunnel. Which in turn cracked me up, so much I had to make use of the term.

Agreed, some characters make me do it more than others. I couldn't see Fraser making use of some twisted saying, he's a little too proper, language wise for that. Ray? Totally. He mangles the language already, it's just fun using that in a story. Of course, as always, you have to control it. If it gets out of hand, it stops being quaint, and becomes annoying instead.

In stargate, I could probably get away with Daniel using some pretty odd sayings, but Jack? Not really. It would feel off, and I wouldn't end up doing it.

Firefly? As I mentioned above, it's already a mixture of English and Cantonese, there's no reason why there wouldn't be other settlements out there where of some other origin, language wise. Even if Europe was completely destroyed, there are many people from over here, who live in the States.

Actually, twistedchick, said it right. The worst thing to do when writing, what will throw her off, and I'm with her on that, is bad grammar and incorrect spelling will completely derail the reading. Accidentally, no, I haven't had anyone checking this entry for booboos ;P

Now look what you made me do. I went on a rant instead of writing requests! *slinks off to check who's next on the list - right after I've hunted down the pain killers*

Comments

[kimuro.livejournal.com]

English is my first language - I wanted to say that right off the bat (immediately) and furthermore, I'm an American. That said, when I write, I like to use archaic language, obscure slang sayings and even translations of sayings or proverbs from other languages, whatever the character's individuality calls for and I can justify this because it is all potentially part of American English. We are a nation of immigrants and our speech reflects that, on the whole, if not in the microcosm. Many expressions are translations from a language other than English, especially slang terms.

A number of my personal speech patterns are based on the speech of the Smokey Mountains - West Virginia to be precise. These are not the ones prevalent in the mid-west, or in the cities and they can be typified as un-educated or ignorant because they are not "Standard English". But for me, Standard English is boring, banal and tasteless - like wall-paper paste. It's far more fun to say "Invisible insanity" than "Out of sight, out of mind" (and faster too). Or to "crack wise" than to be "wise-cracking".

My point is, for every person who complains about your "non-Standard" phrases, there are likely two or three others who find it colourful and exciting. Please, do not stop or feel self-conscious - write as the story and characters dictate. If not, you will be like the father in the Aesop story of the man, the boy and the mule, who tried to please everyone, ended up pleasing no one and lost the mule he was taking to market to boot (also).

Beannachd leat.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

Well, I wasn't about to stop unless I was confusing people more than entertaining them with it *g*

Heck, Danish is a small language, but even here we fool around with the language -- unfortunately I work with a girl who's studied Danish and she tends to correct me -- I normally just laugh and tell her not to bother. I kinda like my language the way it is. Now, when I start mixing a little too much English in there, it's time to back off LOL

[twistedchick]

I can see using 1. in an Atlantis story, or a story where someone on a planet is telling Daniel how a thing was invented.

2. Jack might say (and I think has said), "Don't go looking for trouble." My mother would have said, "Don't borrow trouble."

3. sounds like something my Italian grandmother would have said (probably about my grandfather.) It has the ring of a traditional proverb.

4. Jack would say this. Also sounds like a proverb. One of the fannish variants (I think) is "The universe watches over drunkards, children and starships named Enterprise."

5. All of these are found in English, commonly enough that an annoyed Daniel could say to Jack, "Once burned", and walk away, and Jack would know exactly what was happening.

FWIW, my linguistic upbringing is a combination of American English, Canadian/British English, Canadian Irish, and one-generation-off Neapolitan Italian turned American. (That's not counting the languages I've studied at various times (Latin, German, classical Greek) or tried to pick up other ways (Italian, French, Spanish) or failed utterly to be able to pick up (Thai.) The closest to Danish I've come is reading Isak Dinesen. Even though she wrote in English, and told her stories to Englishmen, her phrasing has an entirely different flavor which I assume has something to do with thinking in Danish first. (I could easily be wrong.)

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

No, you're right about Isak Dinesen (Karen Blixen). I've read the English editions as well and they've always made me smile a little at the sentence constructions. Where most Danes make me cringe when I hear/read something that is a little too Danish, hers was clever enough and she was an eccentric lady, so she could get away with it.

I think mostly, what I run into when fooling around with proverbs and the like, is that beta readers sometimes aren't flexible enough. Don't get me wrong, I love my betas, all of them. I'm just lucky that most of my betas will ask when they encounter something they consider off/odd and I can explain it. I'm aware that they look at a story with much more focus than an ordinary fanfic reader would. That's why we have betas afterall.

I'm fascinated by how many languages/dialects/cultures you've been brought up on. I absolutely love a melting pot of cultures and languages. It's part of what makes life fun. I guess working at the University bookstore here allows me to talk to a wide variety of students and I absolutely love it.